I'm not crazy...I'm just bored!!

Wow! Thanks for the educational read! I appreciate you sharing what you have learned!

Andrea, I was thinking about you with the uphill running. If you have access to a TM when you get back runnin, maybe try the 6% incline option to ease back into it. It may help whatever issues may be going on!

Great news! You're back at it. Sweet. Sounds like you found a Doc that really knows what he's talking about.

Very very interesting and I learned a lot from this. I have always been told the same thing about running at an incline but never believed it. he he!

I guess I need to try it. Best of luck with your recovery. I am excited for you. :D

This entry is a novel!!!! Longer than ANY of my race reports. hehehe. Like the others, I did enjoy reading it and got a little education out of it as well.

I can tell that you are rearing to go and you have quickly healed much to your surprise! I swear this went by a lot faster than when we were both put up in the gym.

I like it when you have a plan, you are so dang diligent! Stay focused, that foot is on the mend for the better now.

Still don't remember how you did it? Drop a couch on it moving stuff for Christmas? Kick the dog? My mom broke her toe doing that once (hahaha).

Huh. Can you go over the equivalent effort and speed/incline stuff again? The intensity makes sense, but I've never heard actual numbers you could use. Did you catch this week's unwatchable Biggest Loser?

Chad, my PT is seriously a wealth of info. He can even tell you what study and journal etc his info is coming from! I just hope it works for me! :)

Rachelle, I always knew hills were good for you, but I didn't realize just how much impact the incline takes off! Great for times when you feel those injuries coming on!

Becca, I know! That is why I warned you at the beginning :) But, I told you 99% of it all yesterday, so you really didn't have to read it! It does seem like this is healing faster than a SF, but I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I was completely immobilized with it too. I didn't keep pushing and trying to have active healing. If we would just stop and do nothing to aggravate SF's for 4 weeks, they would probably heal up just as quick :) You also must remember I'm not quite back at it. On my way, but I probably still have a good 3-5 weeks in front of me depending on pain issues until I can run how I like to. Oh, and how I did it? yeah, still don't remember. I think I may have tried to move the stool in the kitchen with my foot and slipped and kicked it with the top of my foot instead, but I don't remember if that was a different time I hurt the top of my foot or not. I seem to think it was a different time. Who knows! I'm just a klutz! :)

Kam, okay, so my PT said that he doesn't have a sound scientific formula for it, but has found in his own experience (with himself and patients) that the incline at 6% with equal effort is equivalent to the same time running on a flat surface. He did find one article/study about it in Guinea pigs, but he laughed and said that wasn't quite applicable. He is just a crazy wealth of info that one! You'll have to get injured sometime and I'll send you his way :) As far as Biggest Loser goes I almost forgot it was almost on this week. The speed episode of only an hour was dumb. I didn't really like it this week and I'm tired of all the drama schmama about not puting the effort in "but I AM trying" they need Jillian back. Talk about no excuses. My favorite quote is hers: "if you aren't dead, fainting or puking - KEEP GOING!" Gail and Conda drive me batty!! I hate the whiny attitude and half-effort. If you don't want to be there and work your BIG BUTT off then let someone else go! Heck, I'd love to go for just one week and I would promise you would never hear me complain!!! I might sneak off and eat a cookie, but I wouldn't complain :) The big guys and girls aren't pulling big numbers - even the first week! This season there just seems to be a lot more losers than normal. Okay, I think I've now written TWO novels today :)

That is the best mews and informations of the day!!! :). I am glad you took such good notes! you are a perfect student err patient! Hehe!

So so so happy you foot now has super bone! You have been so dedicated in keeping up with the cardio. You are well on your way to running better stronger and faster! Remember you are queen of hills...6% is easy stuff for you!

Yu need to show me some of those PT strengthening stuff! My elliptical and TM is always open! :)

RACHEL...I can't tell you just HOW excited I am for you!!!! Hip hip hooray!

I'm so glad you wrote down all your PT stuff - please keep doing it! I have a few PT questions for you, but have to pick up my kids from school...later!

Again, I am so excited for you! You are going to whoop my hiney at Ogden :)

Wow, that was long. :) I'm excited for you to start running again.

Biggest Loser---one comment: Bob is an absolute baby and can not handle the fact that he is not the favorite any more. Big BABY!

I can see how you say that spinning is not equivalent to running because it is an entirely different exercise and works completely different muscles. BUT I feel the same way about the elliptical. I do not think it is at all equivalent to running and I read a bunch of stuff online about it a few weeks ago (and there might have been something in Runners World). Do you really feel like you give the same effort on those machines as running? Do you think it works the same muscles? It just seems like running is running, biking is biking....and so on. Nothing is a substitute, they are all just different ways of getting cardio. When we are injured, we just want to keep up our fitness in some way. I know when I finish a spin class I am dripping sweat and my legs are spent. I crank that resistance on and work my legs until they can barely walk most of the time. I could never do more than one!!! In fact, if I know I still have to run, I purposely take it a little easier in spin so I will still have use of my legs. Spinning kicks my trash.

All of that incline stuff is crazy. It will be interesting to follow you and see how this goes. You are gonna be one heck of a hill runner. No matter how you slice it, running hills makes ya stronger.

So, miles-wise, what are you thinking for high mileage training? Why does he feel like that is a good idea? You know I love the high miles, so just curious as to the reasoning behind it.

Very interesting post. Much more interesting than the homework I am supposed to be doing! That seems to be the case far too often lately. STINK!!! I need to refocus!!! :) :) :)

Anyway, it is cool that you posted about this because I made myself a list of metabolic equivalents just a couple of weeks ago after we studied them in my Therapeutic Exercises class. I will just copy and paste the ones I made for me since you and I do a lot of the same types of crosstraining. Very cool stuff!!! Of course, you can never set these types of rules in stone because there is always variability among individuals ... but it is pretty sound, otherwise. :)

Also, I have to say that I agree with Kelli. If you are looking for the best way to become a better runner than you need to do running specific training, for biking you need to bike, for swimming you need to swim, and so forth. So nothing truly is equivalent to running other than running. But I still think these METs are a great way to see how the energy expenditure translates. :)

Let me know what you think! :)

And, like Kelli, I am excited to see how the whole incline thing goes for you. You are going to own every hill (I still haven't learned to like those babies)!!! :)

***************

Calculation of Energy Cost (in kcal) –

Formula:

(MET value x body weight in kilograms) x (minutes exercised/60)

• You can convert weight simply by multiplying your weight in lbs by .454

MET Values (Metabolic Equivalents):

5.5 Bicycling, stationary, 100 Watts, light effort

7.0 Bicycling, stationary, 150 Watts, moderate effort

10.5 Biycling, stationary, 200 Watts, vigorous effort

12.5 Bicycling, stationary, 250 Watts, very vigorous effort

8.0 Running, 5 mph

10.0 Running, 6 mph

11.0 Running, 6.7 mph

11.5 Running, 7 mph

12.5 Running, 7.5 mph

13.5 Running, 8 mph

14.0 Running 8.6 mph

8.0 Swimming laps, freestyle, slow, moderate or light effort

10.0 Swimming laps, freestyle, fast, vigorous effort

*** Of course all of these values change (increase or decrease) once you start adding or subtracting resistance (such as in hills, etc.)

Explain what you copied and pasted. i am confused. What exactly does MET mean?

So a 10 in running is close to a 10.5 in biking? Vigorous effort in biking is about the same as 6 mph running? Sorry, i am dumb!

Kel~

Basically, you have the right idea. In other words, running at a 10:00 minute pace is equivalent to biking vigorously for the same amount of time. The way to look at it is to look at the energy cost (which is easy to measure in calories). You have to plug everything into the formula. For example, let's say you weigh 115 pounds and you run on a flat surface for 30 minutes at a 10 minute pace (i.e., 6 mph). You would first convert your weight into kilograms (115 x .454 = roughly 52 kilograms) then you plug it into the formula like this: (10 x 52) x (30/60) = 260 kcal. In other words, you would have burned 260 calories. But if you would have run at a 7 minute pace for the same amount of time you would have used (14 x 52) x (30/60) = 364 calories. Does that make sense. If you would have biked vigorously you would have burned (10.5 x 52) x (30/60) = 273 calories, but if you had biked at a light effort you would have only burned (5.5 x 52) x (30/60) = 143 calories. Does that make sense? :)

And, of course, this also depends on the resistance you have on the bike, etc. You can make it much more difficult or easier as well. Some bikes have wattages on them ... that makes it much more accurate. :)

Well, I do not weigh 115 pounds (said as I devour chocolate covered pomegranates)!

That makes sense. I have always known that running burns the most calories! That is why I still do it, injury after injury, pain after pain! But in spin, I CRANK on that resistance so I work as hard as if I am sprinting away on the TM (if not harder)! All that matters to me is that I get a good workout. Tuesday I got my heart rate over 220 in spin a few times. Do not tell me I was not workin'! ;o)

Oh, and MET stands for metabolic equivalents. Basically, there is a HUGE list (that even includes you know what) that has been developed to facilitate the comparison of physical activities across studies, in the clinic and so forth. :)

Oh, one more thing ... VERY VERY VERY COOL that you got SO MUCH GOOD NEWS TODAY!!!! :) :) :)

WAHOO!!!!!!!

What is the MET for aqua jogging? I would think that would be the most similar thing you can find to actual running?

The MET for deep water running is 8. :) It is actually kind of cool that livestrong.com actually has a little article about it. http://www.livestrong.com/article/321319-calories-burned-when-deep-water-running/

Okay, I am totally LOVING this conversation. Especially since Teena with her breadth of knowledge of all things PT and injury rehab has chimed in with GREAT info!! I'm such a knowledge whore :) I would totally go to medical school and nursing school and dental school and all of their respective sub-categories (PT, podiatry, surgery, oncology, dermatology) if I could. I, of course would just audit them all. I don't want to have to do homework and have the stress of studying for tests etc, I just want to LEARN! So, I love this kind of stuff - best part of getting injured if you ask me! :)

Okay, so I love the conversions Teena! They seem about spot on from what I would feel as well. However, that said I think the conversions that my PT referred to were more along the lines of how it translates to running specifically. So, in order for your muscles (that you primarily use in running) to get the same kind of workout they would running you would have to do 3X as much spinning and 1.4X as much elliptical. Basically stating that you use more of your running muscles/form on the elliptical than you do on the bike. Now, this is NOT to say that the bike isn't a GREAT workout! He said it is definitely a wonderful cardio workout, but I was/am only concerned with getting back to running - so that is what we talked about.

Kelli, I agree with you that the elliptical is dumb. I hate it and I feel like I get a better calorie burn or workout on the bike! Crank up the resistance and pedal the crap out of that thing and sweat all over the place - awesome! Stand and spin your legs over and over as your feet fall asleep - blech! BUT, if this will restore my running muscles to a place where I can get back to running faster I will take the dumb machine. I don't know how or why (I'm sure Teena could shed a better light on that), but the elliptical translates to running better than the bike. Not maybe in workout (MET) equivalent, but in muscles recruited/used for running. Or, at least that is my understanding. If I'm way out in left field I am not about being corrected!! I know SO little when it comes to stuff like this. So, aqua jogging may not be a good translator for workout (MET) but it is the best way to keep your muscles primed for running without the impact. This is why it IS the most similar thing to running and one of the best ways to rehab, but if you've ever tried it you know that you can NOT get your heart rate as high as you do running - I swear it is impossible. I can see why it is only an 8 on the MET scale.

I have to fully agree with both of you about the run to run better, bike to bike better etc. I think it has been proven time and time again that doing it is the only way to do it better. The other stuff may help develop your muscles, endurance and help prevent injury, but in order to run faster you have to do just that - run faster! :) The only problem is: I can't run. When we are placed in the situation where we can't run, but want to get back there we must find the next best thing and that is what my PT was trying to get through to me. Not that spinning isn't good and not that it isn't a killer workout (he'd be an idiot if he said it wasn't!!), but that it doesn't translate well to running - as far as muscle use/recruitment. That is why he encouraged me to do more elliptical and less spinning. Simply to rehab those muscles. Also, the reason why he put me walking and running up Mt Everest on the TM. Reduction of impact for healing, but working those muscles and tendons back to a place where I can run pain free again - and sooner!!

I guess my point is with the question of: spinning is a killer workout, why not do that? The elliptical isn't as good of a workout? Is this: We are kind of comparing apples and oranges. You're right that the workout (MET) is better on the bike - by FAR, not to mention the enjoyment factor! But I'm not so worried about that right now as getting my body ready to run and those are the equivalents that I am looking for and referring to. Again, I may be completely off base here and I'm open to suggestion/comments and someone even simply telling me I'm off my rocker :)

So...let's discuss....

Rachel~

As far as my breadth of knowledge goes ... it is not a whole lot yet. But I am learning a ton!! You would LOVE PT school (especially if you could take the stress of it away and just enjoy the learning part)!!! :)

I don't have the numbers in front of me but I remember having to look elsewhere for the METs of the elliptical. I did find some for the Procur (sp?) elliptical machines. They were pretty high. It just seems more fun to push myself to the very vigorous effort on the bike than when I am on the elliptical! ;)

Your PT (was it Josh?) very well could have been implying exactly what you stated. It would be cool if someone would do a huge randomized clinical study on some of that stuff. It would be interesting to see how they would actually measure it and what the results would be. :)

I hope that made sense. Obviously there have been a lot of studies done ... but it would be interesting to see more specific studies regarding muscular recruitment of specified running muscles in different crosstraining exercises. Whereas the METs look more at the cardiovascular end (i.e., oxygen consumption and energy expenditure).

Huh, that does make a lot more sense to me now. I do not think that biking translates to running, it IS totally different miles. I thought we were just talking cardiovascular here. Biking is so much harder than that darn elliptical! I did fins some settings that were good on the ones closest to the door at the rec center, but nowhere near the energy I put out running and spinning! I do see that they would use more of the same muscles that running does when compared to the bike, but they just do not get the heart pumping as well.

This is very interesting!

I always knew you would be a sideshow hit. Congrats :)

Chocolate-covered pomegranates! Those things from Costco? I just got some. And I love them so much.

I feel the same way about Biggest Loser.

And all of this made me want to try running on an incline even though I hate running on an incline.

Wow! That is good news. And I'll have to give a couple of those a try. Thanks for the reference, Rachel!